Century Foundation senior fellow Barton Gellman sat down with CNN’s Jake Tapper to discuss Gellman’s recent revelation that the NSA has been violating its own privacy rules. While the nearly 3000 instances of violations were a small percentage of overall operations, Gellman says that “the absolute numbers matter a lot.” He goes on to suggest that the President is defining NSA abuse “quite narrowly.”

Watch the full video below.